TDA & Ant+

[ATENEA]

Got it!
In your experience of using the TDA, what are the benefits of an ANT+ connection over the BT alternative?

[mcorn]

Got it!
In your experience of using the TDA, what are the benefits of an ANT+ connection over the BT alternative?

Except for the problem with the newer dual-channel BT cadence transmitters described in my earlier post, I don't think there is really any major benefit of ANT+ over BT unless you have some older sensors that are ANT+ only that you want to use (for example, an HRM). There is a minor benefit for ANT+, which is if you want to send the same sensor signal to more than one receiver, you can do that with ANT+ but not single channel BT. For example, if you want to send the speed or cadence signal to a handlebar computer and the PC at the same time, you can do that with ANT+ but not BT. But I think this is probably fairly infrequent. My wife and I have a tandem that we ride indoors and she has a Garmin handlebar computer on the back and she can receive the same ANT+ speed and cadence signal on her handlebar computer that we send to the PC.

[ATENEA]

Thanks mcorn!

One final question: is there any way to use the "Flying Saucer" (T2022) that comes with the Tacx Genius (to control the TTS4 software) to control the TDA?

Else, what are your suggestions on how to interact with the TDA while you are riding (using a keyboard when pedalling hard is not exactly easy, not to mention the problem of sweat dripping into the keyboard).

What can you say about "voice commands"? Do you find them useful / user friendly?

[mcorn]

Thanks mcorn!

One final question: is there any way to use the "Flying Saucer" (T2022) that comes with the Tacx Genius (to control the TTS4 software) to control the TDA?

Else, what are your suggestions on how to interact with the TDA while you are riding (using a keyboard when pedalling hard is not exactly easy, not to mention the problem of sweat dripping into the keyboard).

What can you say about "voice commands"? Do you find them useful / user friendly?

All good questions. My answers:

1. None of the older Tacx proprietary ANT or USB devices (handlebar controllers, Blacktrack, non-Smart trainers) will work with TDA. Even if some of them are ANT devices, they are Tacx proprietary and not standard ANT+, which is why they won't work.

2. For a handlebar controller, I purchased an inexpensive Bluetooth keypad and a bicycle handlebar mobile phone holder. Total cost was about ~US$30, a lot less expensive than the Tacx controllers ever were. In TDA settings, there is a "Key Bindings" tab that enables you to reprogram keyboard commands to match whatever you want on the Bluetooth keypad. My keypad has plenty of available keys when you use the shift function. F1 is the default command that drops down a list of commands (you can reprogram that key as well). My guess is if you have an infrared transmitter on your PC, you could use a TV remote the same way as well (I have not tried that). Some universal TV remotes are even less expensive. Only thing is if you are using a TV in your workout room that has the possibility of conflicting with your TV remote.

3. I don't use the voice commands, but others do.

[Malfukt]

What can you say about "voice commands"? Do you find them useful / user friendly?

I find them easy enough to use, before giving a command you need to say "Hey Tacx" then it accept commands for approx 20 seconds by which time need to repeat "Hey Tacx" instruction..

If hover mouse pointer over voice commands in "Settings" you will get popup box with list of commands.

I also don`t find keyboard an issue, it is in a clear plastic bag, sweat doesn`t affect it..

[Cycling2011]

I also don`t find keyboard an issue, it is in a clear plastic bag, sweat doesn`t affect it..

I have the keyboard near me so i can take screenshots with the PrtScr

[mcorn]

I think with my setup I would find it awkward to try to reach down to a full keyboard with protective plastic over it. We have 3 bikes in our training room (2 tandems and 1 single). They are about 6 to 8 feet from the computer and the keyboard is wired. I know everyone finds what works for them and the nice thing about TDA is there are a number of possibilities. I do not know if ambient noise, like from a TV or music, interferes with the microphone. Below is a picture with the BT keypad and an old T1932 controller for size comparison.

A similar thing that could be done would be to mount a BT smart phone on the handlebars and use a keyboard emulator program on the smart phone. You would have to link the smart phone to the PC via BT. I have not tried this, but someone else suggested it and it sounds workable.

I do not take credit for the BT keypad idea. It came from the Tacx video master (Phil Stone of Ergovideo.com).

DSCN1485 web.JPG (82.64 KiB) Viewed 65632 times

[Cycling2011]

I would use a BT Number pad instead of Keyboard but i need a one touch key press to take screenshots.I do not change data screens and only change to full GPS view once for the screenshot then back again.I also have the Tacx bracket on handle bars for iPad and TTA.

[Malfukt]

I do not know if ambient noise, like from a TV or music, interferes with the microphone

No experience of this happening, music playing in background hasn't affected it... think the instruction "Hey Tacx" is to open connection for 20 seconds only and avoid connection remaining open to be affected by extraneous noise and grunting of the cyclist

[ms6073]

No experience of this happening, music playing in background hasn't affected it...

You obviously are not running enough big ass fans.
I was not even aware that TTS allowed voice commands, but I am pretty sure that in our 'trainer room' (front bedroom) which faces the west and enjoys a lot of afternoon sun, the ambient noise from the fans in front of our bikes would mask any voice command attempts.

[audunth]

TACX and GARMIN specify in the FAQs related to NEO and TDA that TDA works only with Bluetooth for the time being.
A solution for using ANT+ is being develped but is not available currently.

That FAQ is not up to date. I have used ANT+ with TDA.

So you can connect your trainer to TDA with Ant+, not only extra sensors, like cadence, heart rate etc.?

How about older non-smart trainers? Especially now that they end support for TTS3/4? I have a Genius and bought the Smart upgrade, but in case something happens with the electronics in the trainer, I'd like to know I could switch back to the old circuit board and have a working trainer as a reserve.

Regards,
Audun

[mcorn]

So you can connect your trainer to TDA with Ant+, not only extra sensors, like cadence, heart rate etc.?

How about older non-smart trainers? Especially now that they end support for TTS3/4? I have a Genius and bought the Smart upgrade, but in case something happens with the electronics in the trainer, I'd like to know I could switch back to the old circuit board and have a working trainer as a reserve.

I have used a Flow Smart and Vortex Smart with TDA up to about 6 months ago. No way to use Tacx non-Smart trainers with TDA, so you would be out of luck for the older Tacx trainers that are not ANT+ compliant (same goes for the older Tacx USB trainers).

[ms6073]

Can you brief us on how you go about connecting your Tacx Smart trainer to TDA via ANT+?

I think there is some confusion here as my understanding is that although Tacx recently updated TDA to support ANT+ for peripheral sensors such as speed, hr, and cadence, Tacx has not yet implemented support for the ANT+ FE-C protocol, so we still have to use Bluetooth to connect to a Tacx Smart Trainers.

[ms6073]

I have used a Flow Smart and Vortex Smart with TDA up to about 6 months ago.

I think we are confusing the issue/questions. As I mentioned above, my understanding is that although Tacx has updated TDA to allow connecting cadence, speed, and HR sensors via ANT+, they have not yet implemented ANT+ FE-C, thus currently Bluetooth is still required to connect a Tacx Smart Trainer to TDA.

[audunth]

So you can connect your trainer to TDA with Ant+, not only extra sensors, like cadence, heart rate etc.?

How about older non-smart trainers? Especially now that they end support for TTS3/4? I have a Genius and bought the Smart upgrade, but in case something happens with the electronics in the trainer, I'd like to know I could switch back to the old circuit board and have a working trainer as a reserve.

I have used a Flow Smart and Vortex Smart with TDA up to about 6 months ago. No way to use Tacx non-Smart trainers with TDA, so you would be out of luck for the older Tacx trainers that are not ANT+ compliant (same goes for the older Tacx USB trainers).

I am not talking about trainers that are not Ant+ compliant, the old Genius (or i-Genius that it was later called) uses Ant+, just only Tacx' own protocol, not Ant+ FE-C. Just sayin' if Garmin stops supporting TTS, they should at least make TDA work with the old Ant+ (non FE-C) trainers. Or just give out a final TTS4 update where they remove the online authentication and make the serial numbers that all TTS4 owners have work offline.

[Malfukt]

A complete solution for ANT+FEC was implemented by developers for widows 10 which as mcorn stated was being used in beta until few months ago, for some reason it was paired down just to ANT and able recognise speed & cadence which shows readings whilst training (you will notice if try ANT with trainer that power is also selectable but it does not show an actual reading ..

[mcorn]

I am not talking about trainers that are not Ant+ compliant, the old Genius (or i-Genius that it was later called) uses Ant+, just only Tacx' own protocol, not Ant+ FE-C. Just sayin' if Garmin stops supporting TTS, they should at least make TDA work with the old Ant+ (non FE-C) trainers. Or just give out a final TTS4 update where they remove the online authentication and make the serial numbers that all TTS4 owners have work offline.

When I say ANT+ compliant, for a brake I mean one that is FE-C. No "proprietary" ANT+ protocol is ANT+ compliant. This is the reason that none of the early Tacx brakes that used an ANT+ proprietary protocol would work with other software needing FE-C capability.

If you go to the official ANT+ website of compliant devices and click on "Tacx" you will see that none of the older non-Smart trainers are listed. They are not considered ANT+ compliant.

https://www.thisisant.com/directory/

[ms6073]

If you go to the official ANT+ website of compliant devices and click on "Tacx" you will see that none of the older non-Smart trainers are listed. They are not considered ANT+ compliant.

https://www.thisisant.com/directory/

Seems rather ironic considering that Garmin owns both Tacx.com and ThisIsAnt.com, but has been steadily moving more and more towards Bluetooth connected devices and apps.

[mcorn]

Seems rather ironic considering that Garmin owns both Tacx.com and ThisIsAnt.com, but has been steadily moving more and more towards Bluetooth connected devices and apps.

Garmin bought ANT+ many years ago when it seemed there was a big contest between ANT+ and BT for the sports market. In fact, I think ANT+ was dominant. But that all seemed to change. Most devices today have dual BT/ANT+. I think there are some advantages to ANT+. It seems a little less quirky to me.

[mcorn]

A complete solution for ANT+FEC was implemented by developers for widows 10 which as mcorn stated was being used in beta until few months ago, for some reason it was paired down just to ANT and able recognise speed & cadence which shows readings whilst training (you will notice if try ANT with trainer that power is also selectable but it does not show an actual reading ..

Yes, Mal is right. I had forgotten that development of ANT+ for TDA is still a bit incomplete when it comes to the brake itself (power readings). I have always had a BT transmitter connected as well as ANT+ andconnected the brake itself by BT. But as Mal says, all of the other sensors seem to work fine with ANT+. And I would expect Tacx would get ANT+ working for the brake itself at some point.

[ATENEA]

Interestingly,

Whereas my brand new NEO 2T connects well to TDA on BT and on ANT+,

My old Bushido Smart connects to TDA only on BT. Connection via ANT+ is impossible with the Tacx dongle/antenna (T2028) an extremely random and unstable with a Suunto adapter.

Any explanation ?

Meanwhile, I connect the Bushido to TDA via bluetooth and connect my HRM (non bluetooth) via ANT+.

[mcorn]

Remember that when connecting via ANT+ to TDA, the connection does not actually appear until you stop the search.

I found in the past that Suunto ANT+ transmitters were quite unpredictable in performance, so I stopped using them. I believe they had fewer channels, so if you went over 4 sensors, there were problems.

[ATENEA]

Remember that when connecting via ANT+ to TDA, the connection does not actually appear until you stop the search.

I found in the past that Suunto ANT+ transmitters were quite unpredictable in performance, so I stopped using them. I believe they had fewer channels, so if you went over 4 sensors, there were problems.

Thank you. I am well aware of those two facts.

I only connect 1) the Bushido (supposed to be ANT+ and BT), 2) a Garmin "only ANT+ HRM strap" (no BT), 3) a QUARQ ELSA powermeter (only ANT+ no BT) and 4) a Garmin wheel speed sensor (only ANT+, no BT).

With this configuration, the Tacx T2028 will not connect at all to the Bushido under ANT+ but will connect to the Garmin HRM, the Quarq-Elsa and the Garmin wheel speed sensor (all three are ANT+, no BT).

In contrast, the Suunto adapter does "ANT+ connect" to the Tacx Bushido; the connection is unreliable and reports speed and cadence, but not power!

So I BT the Bushido to TDA and ANT+ the other sensors!

[Cycling2011]

I have been using Ant+ for my Wahoo Tickr for a while.However the other day I was getting drop outs of HR reading.
The next day I had 10 drops of HR reading on a 45 minute ride.I had not changed my set in any way.I have now gone
back to BT for both Neo and Tickr.

[cedricbourg]

Hi,

Coming back on this subject as I am facing the same problem as sgmack.

I am trying to connect my hr belt that is only ant+ to the tacx desktop app. However the ant icon on the app remains Grey and display "ant+ not available" when I have my mouse on it.

Has there now a fix to this issue?

I am using a windows 10 laptop with a ant+ dongle. This is working fine with zwift.

Thanks for your help.

Cédric

[sgmack]

Hi Cedric

I never found a solution to my Ant + not available issue on TDA. I came to the conclusion it had something to do with my dual boot set up.
I'm assuming your laptop has just the one HDD.

My workaround was to buy a dual Ant+/BT heart rate belt and a BT cadence sensor as i don't like how my Neo calculates cadence.
I fear you may also have to buy dual sensors to overcome the problem.

Cheers.........Steve
https://www.strava.com/clubs/TTic

[cedricbourg]

Hi,

Thanks for your reply.

I would like to add that I have tested ant+ with two different laptops. Same issue being the ant logo staying Grey in TDA.

Could it come from the Ant+ dongle that I am using? It is one I bought on Amazon. Again, working fine with zwift...

Thanks.

Cédric

[sgmack]

Hi Cedric

No. It doesn't seem to be an issue with the dongle. I'm using the Tacx Ant+ dongle .
It seems to be a strange issue with the users pc........Glad I'm not the only one with this problem. Spending money on dual Ant+/BT devices seems to be the only workaround.

Cheers.......Steve

[Malfukt]

With Ant+ in TDA once the search has found your ANT devices you need to turn the search off, the you can connect the ANT devices

[sgmack]

Cedric is saying that TDA reports Ant+ not available.........not that it is "searching". Same problem I have with TDA to this day and have given up trying to solve !!!